Outlaw births...Channel 5 9th July @ 9pm

I've noticed that there is an 'Extraordinary People' show on entitled Outlaw births....question is.....are they really considered 'outlaw' births? Is it illegal to undertake 'freebirthing' as they call it?

Weren't babies born at home all the time in years gone by? I know my husband was one of 3 birthed at home without a midwife or GP present, just the older female relatives to hand.

I understand that there may be medical issues not picked up with monitoring which could endanger both mother and baby... but I wondered why the term 'outlaw' was used....??

If a death occurred of either the mother or baby would the partner/parents or those present be liable to prosecution??

http://www.tvtv.co.uk/tvtv/index.vm?mainTemplate=web%2Fsearch_result.vm&searc h_input=outlaw+births&x=0&y=0〈=en

Click on the actual words to see the full listing description....

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I believe its illegal for someone to "choose" to act as a midwife if they're not qualified and registered. So I'd figure free birthing.. ie, alone isn't illegal. But someone ASSISTING you to birth "alone" would be breaking the law.

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Its not illegal in this country to birth without a midwife, but in my view having midwives present who can manage a PPH and a flat baby is crucial - yes its 'just in case' but would you want to take that risk? Ive attended two women who had normal vaginal births but babe just did not breathe, if the midwife wasnt present would the parents have known what to do? even if they were trained professionals its V different working on your own baby....

The parents would be held responsible.

Have a look at this....

http://www.midwiferyworld.net/midwif...revisited.html

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Some very good points TallPoppy, thanks. I'm on the side of always having a midwife present who has managed the woman throughout; I can sympathise with why women would want to 'go it alone' but for me personally, I'd rather have backup and guidance from the first stages. Knowing how panicked I felt and how both my lads caused me and the midwives some very anxious moments....I'd not swap having a midwife present for the pleasure of saying 'I did it all on my own'....but that is just me.

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I think if all goes well then the women will feel justified but if anything untoward did happen they would never forgive themselves. The phrase 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' springs to mind, these women say things like 'it's perfectly natural to give birth' and 'women have been doing this for centuries before midwives and doctors were available' but they don't realise how common both infant and maternal death were.

Even if it was a 1 in a billion chance of something going wrong, I wouldn't risk it.

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this was discussed at the fab UOW conference on birth environments i went to yesterday. like LN and TallPoppy say its not illegal to freebirth- the law is there to protect labouring women from those who are unqualified to 'attend' a woman in childbirth. There have only been two attempts to prosecute hubbys that have delivered their own babies, but these never came to anything.

A lady from AIMS (association for the improvement in maternity services) told us a story of a lady who had been subject to sexual abuse as a child and could not, under any circumstances, face the exposure of a hospital birth, but she did not want a midwife at her home either. she decided to freebirth herself, but was so worried about her husband being prosecuted, she made him go and wait at his mother's down the road!! she had hired a pool, and gave birth to her son in it in the lounge, followed quickly by her placenta with no complications. She then rang her husband's mother, who rang everyone else, and the whole family (plus her husband) arrived to welcome the new baby. and then she phoned the midwife. The midwife reported the couple, and the hospital attempted to have the couple prosecuted, but were told firmly by AIMS that they could not.

I'm not sure what i think of it personally- i think women are amazing for being able to do that on their own, and it probably helps the natural process to be 'undisturbed' as it were. but, what if something goes wrong?

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What we need to take from this new 'craze' is why these women feel they want to go it alone? what has led them to this?

I suspect in the US the medical model puts many women off as it does here but at least here the women have the choice of an NHS homebirth (in most places atm) rather than having to pay for an IM.

I agree with you Tania, one to one care is paramount and its this we need to be working towards not encouraging women to literally take their life and that of their baby into their own hands.

Women need to know that there are thousands of midwives who will give them the birth experience they want in their local unit/at home/at a birth centre and there is no need to take these risks. The women will have to live with their decisions for the rest of their lives and if anyting goes wrong it will be themselves who they will have to answer to.

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What do we live for, if it is not to make life less difficult for each other?
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This is what concerns me.

Firstly that yes many births do happen this way and in an ideal world all would. But peddling such stories does nothing to inform women of the risks associated with freebirthing.

Secondly, Ive cared for many women who have experienced sexual abuse who have real difficulty with the thought of a stranger touching/seeing them when naked. We have overcome this is many ways, some elect for a section but many are designated a midwife with experience of abuse and who know exactly how to care for them.

I wrote a reflection about a woman who had 2 sections due to horrific child abuse but who went on to have a beautiful vaginal birth with the support of one of the midwives at my unit - not because she was determined to, but becuase babe was on his way before she knew it. But afterwards she was ecstatic she said to me (I knew her well) I feel like its all behind me now, Im not scared of my body anymore. Having such a postive vaginal birth experience with the right support actually changed her life, if she had chosen to take the risks that freebirthing may bring and her baby had died, had been brain damaged etc then her history of abuse would have been to blame and so she and her baby would be a victim once again of her past.

Its about listening to why these women chose to freebirth and what we can learn from them and instill in our practice to ensure every womans birth is how she wants it to be, or as close as we can get it depending on any complications etc that may arise.

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StudentMidwife.NET Founder & Director

What do we live for, if it is not to make life less difficult for each other?
(George Eliot, 1860)

I'm not anti freebirthing, and have contacts with a few women who have had them. Also, as I said on the sister forum, I would consider it if I were to ever become pregnant aain, not because I have had horrid experiences but because I think it would be the right thing for me to do.

The concept of risk is a subjective thing, and also very hypnotic. Each individual woman will decide what is too risky for her and I think we canot expect women to consider what the current evidence is when they are making their decisions as we have all come across women who have decided to do something completely opposed to what the current practice is because that is what feels right for them.
If something does go wrong, then yes, the burden of guilt will lay with the parents for making that decision, but what is the problem with that? We should all be responsible for the decisions we make and we, as health professionals are not there to alleviate them of the decision making or the responsibility.
The freebirthing women I have come across have been quite knowledgeable. What really struck me has been the deep sense of trust they have in the birthing process and their bodies.
I know we can disapprove but we really cannot take away their right to birth in the way that they feel safest.

I'm completely torn with this... it's such a hot potato, but thanks to Tania for bringing the program to my attention

We constantly harp on about informed choice, but the reality is that we often don't give women true informed choice. I would think that the vast majority of us are very sensitive to this, but what about those disenchanted midwives who are just going through the motions? And the various other healthcare professionals who might not be considering women-centred care in everything they do? That's one of the many reasons that women do freebirth.

Particularly when we are providing screening information, we ask women to make a risk assessment. With Downs syndrome in particular (in our Trust) 1:250 is the point where low risk suddenly becomes high. Then think about the women who see the 1:100 risk of miscarrying a healthy fetus a risk worth taking to detect a fetus with Downs. Women who freebirth are making their own risk assessment, albeit with (in my eyes) higher stakes.

I hope this waffle makes sense, but what I'm trying to say is that freebirth is unlikely to be a decision that is taken lightly, and without preparation. Yes, in our eyes it might be risky and ill-informed, but risk is a personal issue. When you compare a freebirthing woman with, for example, a woman with a concealed pregnancy who goes into labour, I would think the latter would be at far higher risk.

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