[goddessmomma]

As a mother of a very strict Vegetarian I was interested to come across an article in the August 2008 copy of BJM about the vitamin K injection.

I didn't realise that it has animal derivities in it which are the extracts of the gall bladder of cattle. The chemical company who manafacture and supply the injection failed to mention on any of its literature that it contains this. I understand that this is a phrophylaxis and that parental permission is required before administering it to the baby.

Now there is no alternative at the moment for this and as a result there is a policy put into place throughout the Uk in that when permission is refused this should trigger the involvement of the senior paediatrician and persuasian be applied.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts about this. Have any of you come across a refusal and how was it managed in your trust. Do you feel this is taking away to some extent their freedom of choice even if it is in the babies best interest?

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[ProteinQueen]

I haven't ever came across anyone refusing it but did come across a woman who gave it orally as she didn't want her newborn being injected. While we're on the subject what does everyone think about Vitamin K? Do you think it is necessary for every baby to have it? Sorry I wasn't any help to your original question Goddessmomma x

[appletree]

Hi there
I am a strict veggie, and Chloe and Jack do not eat red meat (Chloe actually does not like chicken so the only meat she will eat is fish) I did not realise this about vit K. It should be made more common knowledge. Saying that I would still give the vit K to my children, as I would put their health and safety first. Having been veggie since I was 11 I know that there are healthy alternatives to meat, but if there are no other options than this for giving vit K then I would not feel so bad!
Labelling for veggie food is really only just starting to get a bit better, so I am not surprised really to hear this. I hate scouring labels at the supermarket for gelatine and rennet!!
x x x

[goddessmomma]

Originally Posted by smw81 I haven't ever came across anyone refusing it but did come across a woman who gave it orally as she didn't want her newborn being injected. While we're on the subject what does everyone think about Vitamin K? Do you think it is necessary for every baby to have it? Sorry I wasn't any help to your original question Goddessmomma x

HaHa ;0) I beg to differ my love. You have told me that you have never come across anyone refusing so it can't be as common as all that. Thanks hun xxxxx

[Normal]

Yeah I only found out about this after my girls had had it too... Having said that - I gave them formula and that has fish oil in it - yuck! I didn't realise that until after they'd first had it either . In all honesty in their case it's probably good that I didn't know as I didn't have to wrestle with my conscious over them having it or not! Having said that - if I ever have another - and they're well - I think I wouldn't give it to them.

I find (as with most things!) it depends on the midwife how it's reacted to if someone refuses - I'm not aware that anyone would put pressure on someone if they didn't want it - depends how well informed the midwife is of the minimal risks of needing it - and if the baby was at risk because of traumatic birth etc....

Is the oral vit K veggie does anyone know - I have in my head that it is - but I could have just made it up!

[goddessmomma]

Originally Posted by appletree Hi there I am a strict veggie, and Chloe and Jack do not eat red meat (Chloe actually does not like chicken so the only meat she will eat is fish) I did not realise this about vit K. It should be made more common knowledge. Saying that I would still give the vit K to my children, as I would put their health and safety first. Having been veggie since I was 11 I know that there are healthy alternatives to meat, but if there are no other options than this for giving vit K then I would not feel so bad! Labelling for veggie food is really only just starting to get a bit better, so I am not surprised really to hear this. I hate scouring labels at the supermarket for gelatine and rennet!! x x x

It was suggested in the article that the company either did not think it relevant to mention it or that they did not wish to advertise the fact. I think you have a very balanced approach and since, as yet, there is no vegetarian equivelant, it may be a neccessary evil. I do feel though that all the information should be available to the parents and not just that which they want you to know.
It is a nightmare checking food labels isn't it. I've made a few gaffs along the way, much to my daughters dismay, but I think she realises my heart is in the right place and it wasn't intentional. That's why, personally, I would feel uncomfortable the parent not knowing what the injection contains. Showing respect for others beliefs and wishes and all... xxxx

[ProteinQueen]

Oral Vitamin K is the same one as they give IM, it is drawn up into a syringe and given that way...without the needle obviously!!

[goddessmomma]

Originally Posted by Norman Yeah I only found out about this after my girls had had it too... Having said that - I gave them formula and that has fish oil in it - yuck! I didn't realise that until after they'd first had it either . In all honesty in their case it's probably good that I didn't know as I didn't have to wrestle with my conscious over them having it or not! Having said that - if I ever have another - and they're well - I think I wouldn't give it to them. I find (as with most things!) it depends on the midwife how it's reacted to if someone refuses - I'm not aware that anyone would put pressure on someone if they didn't want it - depends how well informed the midwife is of the minimal risks of needing it - and if the baby was at risk because of traumatic birth etc.... Is the oral vit K veggie does anyone know - I have in my head that it is - but I could have just made it up!

As far as I understand from the article the oral one which was withdrawn was but then the manafacturers of this one got the license for the oral and intramuscular one which is one and the same. Apparently the new one is supposed to be safer due to its additives and the gall bladder extracts been one of them
NICE guidelines suggest that intramuscular has benefits clinical and cost effect over oral but there has been a link with the im to childhood leukaemia. What a surprise that money should come into it..... xx Bet me to it smw81 haha ;0)

[ProteinQueen]

Originally Posted by goddessmomma Bet me to it smw81 haha ;0)

You explained it better than I did!! Although apparently the leukaemia thing has been shown not to be true-who really knows though. I tend to kind of agree with Sara Wickham on this one but am open to opinion! http://www.withwoman.co.uk/ This is her website and has loads of really interesting reading.

[goddessmomma]

Thanks smw81. I'll check her website out. I really like her articles in "The Practising Midwife" and she talks a lot of sense. xxxx Oh and great news that the link has been disproven. Yet more scaremongering...